FIRST Robotics Competition Blog

Next Generation Control System -- Update

Sep 10, 2020 Written by Kate Pilotte, Senior Kit of Parts Manager, FIRST Robotics Competition.

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While probably not front and center in your mind in September in a pandemic… the team working on the deployment of the next generation FIRST Robotics Competition control system wanted to provide an update to our February, 2020 pre-pandemic blog on the matter. The whole team is excited about getting these new devices to the community, but the roll out needs a bit of revision. Shocker, right?  

Here’s the latest and greatest of where we are as of this moment…

  • NI will provide the next generation roboRIO 
    • Similar functionality (improvements are evolutionary, not revolutionary) 
    • NI has made targeted changes to improve the user experience with roboRIO 2.0 including increased memory, increased on-board storage, and increased processor speed.  
    • roboRIO 2.0 is designed to be backwards-compatible with hardware and software from the original roboRIO   
    • NI will donate 1 roboRIO 2.0 per Rookie Kickoff Kit in FRC seasons 2022-2026 (in addition to other important support of FIRST that emphasizes ED&I)
  • REV Robotics will provide brand-new support modules 
    • Power Distribution Hub 
      • 20 power distribution channels 
      • 40A load capability on all channels 
      • 2 software switchable channels 
      • All toolless & connectorless terminals 
      • USB & CAN interfaces 
    • Pneumatic Hub 
      • 12 solenoid channels (6 double solenoids) 
      • Analog and digital pressure sensing 
      • Regulated 12V & 24V modes 
      • USB & CAN interfaces 
    • Voltage Regulation Hub 
      • 12v or 5v module options 
      • 3 individually protected output channels 

Due to Covid-19 impacts (overall cost considerations and no off-season events available for testing brand-new products), FIRST is delaying rollout of the new REV boards in Kickoff Kits until the 2023 FRC season.  

REV is on track with the new support modules, getting ready for a launch in 2021 for the 2022 Season. FIRST may make these new products competition legal in 2022 for teams who choose to adopt these products on their own. 

  • For the 2022 Season, rookie teams will receive the existing CTRE products and these products will continue to remain competition legal in future years. 
  • WPI and the WPILib development team will provide software in support of the new devices. 
  • The wireless solution will continue to be the Open Mesh radio for the foreseeable future, and we will continue to pursue a solution to succeed these radios.

We emphasize that this is our plan as of today and encourage absorbing this with a Jupiter-sized grain of salt given that we all face so much uncertainty regarding the pandemic. We commit to providing updates though, so please stay tuned!  

 

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Comments

Submitted by Gary Chen (not verified) on Fri, 09/11/2020 - 10:43am
When could teams apply for alpha/beta testing?

Submitted by Kate (not verified) on Sat, 09/12/2020 - 4:47pm

Great to hear you’re interested. Details about beta testing (including when and how to let us know you’re interested) haven’t been defined yet. Stay tuned to this FRC blog for when more information is released. 

Submitted by Brian Kildea (not verified) on Sat, 09/12/2020 - 8:36pm
From reading the blog, I understand that existing code written for the original roboRIO will run on the new roboRIO 2. What about code written for 2022-2026? If a team has an investment in the original roboRIO for a training kit, will it run on the original roboRIO?

Submitted by Kevin O'Connor (not verified) on Tue, 09/15/2020 - 7:23pm
The intent is to continue to support roboRIO hardware for newly developed programs, however there may be technical reasons that individual programs may not be able to run on the older hardware (e.g. use more RAM than is available on roboRIO). I wouldn't feel comfortable making a definitive promise today that roboRIO support will 100% continue for the entire duration of roboRIO 2 lifespan, but we will be working very hard to maintain that as an option.

Submitted by oidc_generic_5f... on Fri, 09/18/2020 - 10:06am

In what season do we expect R57 (and others) to be revised to require teams to use the roborio 2.0 and other new components, if that is known yet? Just curious to plan our budget.

Also, I'm really excited about the pneumatics manifold and integrated solenoid, having fewer wires to manage between Solenoids + PCM will be great. Just a single CAN and power to PDP.

Submitted by Kate (not verified) on Tue, 09/22/2020 - 9:58am

The intent is for robot rules to allow the option of using the current roboRIO/CTR Electronics boards or the new roboRIO 2.0/REV Robotics boards (or a combination of new and existing). There are no plans at this time to exclusively require the new devices only. Please take this comment as the state of where we are today and not a commitment to a particular policy as 2022 is still a ways away! (also, we think there might be a misunderstanding re: the feature set of the new Pneumatics Control Module and read “solenoid channels” as actual solenoids; it doesn’t process compressed air. Sorry if we were unclear above!)

Submitted by oidc_generic_5f... on Sat, 01/09/2021 - 2:53pm

Thanks for the clarifications! Makes sense about the new PCM. We'll see what the next few years entails.

Submitted by M. Benefiel (not verified) on Fri, 09/25/2020 - 12:30pm

Always happy to see improvements/upgrades to existing equipment, it proves we're moving in the right direction.  I am curious, however, to hear more about the issues that arose last year - prior to the shutdown - with the RIO locking up. (It happened to us, week one, during competition - robot was totally inoperative, but indicators said we were still connected).  I saw this first hand, had several mentors on our team trying to chase it down after the event, even followed the thread over at NI.  Yet since the COVID outbreak, this discussion seems to have gotten lost.  Does anyone have info on this?  Has this problem been resolved?  If so, could you please point me in the right direction?  While the possibility of incorporating a "used" RIO in future builds exists, I would like to eliminate as many potential failures as possible - be it a result of programming (firmware/software) or the hardware attached to the RIO.  Thanks in advance - Coach M.

Submitted by oidc_generic_de... on Sat, 09/26/2020 - 3:11pm

Glad to see NI is releasing an "improved" control system, but I really, really hope they've located the source of the problem that first began occurring right before the shutdown. With considerable time perusing the NI website, Delphi, and Google searches, I have been unable to find any further information for the issue discussed here https://www.chiefdelphi.com/t/robot-keeps-losing-com-and-code/378945 

If I have missed it, please point me in the right direction as our team has experienced this failure during a match in week one, and we don't want to replicate it regardless of which version of RIO we're using.  This may have slipped between the cracks, but it was enough of a problem across the FIRST community that the NI engineering team was addressing it, but as I mentioned, I have been unable to find ANY info regarding the root cause OR a solution.

We are a small-market team, with limited finances, and will continue to use the RoboRIO controllers we currently have on hand, and hopefully when we do finally decide to make the transition, this problem will no longer be one to worry about.  Thanks!

 

Submitted by Brian Kildea (not verified) on Fri, 04/30/2021 - 7:05pm
Just wondering whether there is any noteworthy news regarding the roboRIO 2.0 or any of the new hardware modules from Rev Robotics?

Submitted by kpilotte on Mon, 05/03/2021 - 12:55pm

Not at this time, but stay tuned. Once we have more information to share, we’ll blog about it.

Submitted by Team 4821 (not verified) on Thu, 06/17/2021 - 9:38am

Hi! The language suggests that rookie teams will be getting roboRio 2.0 in their kits in 2022. What about veteran teams? Will we be able to use FIRST Choice to get one, or will we need to buy it out of pocket?

Submitted by kpilotte on Thu, 06/17/2021 - 10:26am

Correct, rookie teams will receive a roboRIO 2 as part of their kickoff kit. roboRIO and roboRIO 2 will both be legal for 2022 (and the foreseeable future), so veteran teams can continue to use their existing hardware. If a team would like to purchase a roboRIO 2, they will be available, however information about purchasing how, when, where, and pricing have not been released yet. Stay tuned as those details get firmed up and shared with the community.

Submitted by Garrett Dicken (not verified) on Wed, 07/21/2021 - 10:11am

Do you plan on supporting both CTRE and REV core components in spare parts? The physical dimensions of the rev power distribution hub might not be compatible with the ctre pdp. Will the roborio v1 and v2 be stocked?

 

Thanks

Submitted by kpilotte on Thu, 07/22/2021 - 12:33pm

Hi Garrett, yes, we'll stock current and new control system components in Spare Parts cases. 

Submitted by Michael Tucker (not verified) on Thu, 07/29/2021 - 10:34am

Greetings,

I am very happy to see modernization applied to the robioRIO with version 2.0.

Seems like an opportunity to further simplify wiring was maybe overlooked.

Was POE even considered as a feature add to allow the Open Mesh radio to take power directly from the RIO?

POE is not a new technology. This is evident by the long-time use of 3rd party injectors and now the continuing use of these third-party devices to deliver POE to the radio through the new REV Radio Power Module (https://www.revrobotics.com/rev-11-1856).

 

Michael Tucker / Electrical Mentor FRC 4381

Submitted by kpilotte on Wed, 08/04/2021 - 9:56am

Thank you for your question. NI evaluated adding POE for roboRIO 2 but decided to focus on other improvements (given space and other constraints imposed). NI will consider adding POE in future revisions though. 

Submitted by Tom Winter (not verified) on Mon, 09/13/2021 - 4:17pm

Will you be able to combine old and new? For example, will you be able to use the new Power Distribution Hub with the original RoboRIO?

Submitted by kpilotte on Tue, 09/14/2021 - 8:30am

Yes, the new REV Robotics components will work with roboRIO and the current CTR Electronics components will work with roboRIO 2.0.

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